Executive Producer - David Forster

In this episode, I sit down with Executive Producer, David Forster. David’s first taste of reality TV is not what you’d expect, he tells me all about his unconventional introduction to the industry, how he later honed his skills on set as a writer and the key moments along the way that ultimately led to his rise to the top job on Masterchef and Australian Survivor. 

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Transcript

00:00:01:02 - 00:00:33:08

Hayley Ferguson

Hi, I'm Hayley Ferguson. And this is Beyond Reality, the podcast that explores the worlds of television production by chatting to the people behind the TV shows you love. In this episode, I sit down with executive producer David Foster. David's first taste of reality TV is not what you'd expect. He tells me all about his unconventional introduction to the industry, how he later honed his skills on set as a writer, and the key moments along the way that ultimately led to his rise to the top job on MasterChef and Australian survival.

00:00:33:13 - 00:00:50:21

David Forster

I was a better actor than I was seeing it as a better director then I was an actor, better writer than I was a director and a better producer than I was. I found what I thought I wanted to do, which was singing, ended up becoming producing, and I actually really enjoy this part of it's a combination of hides.

00:00:51:04 - 00:01:02:09

Hayley Ferguson

Hi, Hayley. Thank you so much for joining me. I know you are obviously super busy wrapping up the finale of MasterChef and kicking off the casting of Australian Survivor. So I really appreciate you being here.

00:01:02:13 - 00:01:05:24

David Forster

There's lots on, but I love the show. So happy to be here.

00:01:06:03 - 00:01:21:17

Hayley Ferguson

Thank you so much. I have wanted to talk to you because I think you have a very unique story in terms of your relationship with reality TV. So I'm really excited to get into that. And I guess from my perspective, the first question I always ask is, Did you always want to work in TV?

00:01:22:07 - 00:01:40:19

David Forster

And the answer is no. I started out as a singer, weirdly, when I was in high school. I knew I wanted to be in arts, I guess, but I just gravitated towards singing cause was like in this, like high school singing club. And I thought, you know, being at supernerd I'd just do that. And then people kept telling me I was quite good at it.

00:01:40:19 - 00:01:55:12

David Forster

So I kind of thought, Well, maybe I can do this. And I grew up in Adelaide and there wasn't a lot of TV opportunities there. It didn't really wasn't even considered career coming up. I grew up in the nineties in the early 2000, so if you wanted to be an artist, you kind of had to be in music or dance or.

00:01:56:07 - 00:02:15:11

David Forster

So I started singing and then I graduated high school and I went to study classical music in the Conservatory of Adelaide as an opera singer. And I hated it. I hated every minute of it. I hated the people, I hated the music, I hated the seriousness of it. It just wasn't for me. I was always into sort of pop culture, pop music and that kind of thing more.

00:02:15:16 - 00:02:32:03

David Forster

Looking back, I just wanted to get out of Adelaide. Like, Adelaide is a beautiful place to grow old, shout out to all the people in that I love them dearly. Beautiful place to grow up, beautiful place to raise a family, beautiful place to die. But if you want to do exciting things, there's not a lot of opportunities. It certainly won't back then.

00:02:32:04 - 00:02:52:15

David Forster

There are more now. And so I thought, how do I. And so this was in the dawn of reality TV. You know, Big Brother was 2002, I think and Idol was 2003, maybe. So in 2003, this audition happened on Channel ten. Just thought, we're going to do a reality commission show with a hot house that used to show both the resort and the resort.

00:02:53:02 - 00:03:09:13

David Forster

I thought, this is a good opportunity to get out. So it was literally the ad was kind of, do you want to work on an international resort and be on TV? And I was like, Yeah, I do. So I went along to audition in Adelaide in the Hyatt Hotels - still remember it, and I didn't know what the show was.

00:03:09:13 - 00:03:23:02

David Forster

I, you know what the premise was, no one really knew what reality TV was back then or how it worked. It was the cowboy days and there was this English producer because there are always English producers, and they were just asking me questions about why I would be on the show. And I remember thinking, I've got to stand out.

00:03:23:02 - 00:03:38:01

David Forster

So what I did was when I got my like name tag kind of thing with my name and everything, just before I walked in, I got I was eating a tub of yogurt. So I got like at my top of yogurt, like smashed yogurt on top of the thing. And then I walked in as I was sorry I got yoghurt all over my thing.

00:03:38:01 - 00:04:00:02

David Forster

And they laughed and I thought, I'm going to make a good impression here. I'm going to be good telly. So I just knew that I had to stand out through the thousands of people that were in this lobby for this weird TV show that no one quite knew it was. Anyway, I got on the show and then we went to Fiji and it was such a nightmare.

00:04:00:03 - 00:04:18:12

David Forster

It was a nightmare. It was produced by this New Zealand company that doesn't exist anymore. They bought an old timeshare on Mololo Island in Fiji and they basically just put us there and they're like, Your first job is to renovate your living quarters. And we were just like with we had nothing, and they just literally worked us for 20 hours a day.

00:04:18:12 - 00:04:39:14

David Forster

I was carrying logs, I was using power tools. I had no idea about the first I got burned absolutely to a crisp like a lobster. So we did that and it was like, congratulations. Now you get to go to the resort and we walk to the resort and you know, in a true reality producer way, they were like, this resort has to look as rundown as possible when they came in and they literally had left the pool, those algae in the pool.

00:04:39:21 - 00:04:49:19

David Forster

This is on the second day on the resort. I stepped in the pool on a rusty nail in a pool full of algae like that. And I was just like, I think I need treatment.

00:04:50:01 - 00:04:54:09

Hayley Ferguson

Can you just set up what the premise of the show actually was?

00:04:54:09 - 00:05:23:07

David Forster

The resort premise was for, I think, 15 strangers to go to an international resort, renovate it, and then run it for paying guests who also happened to be audience members of the show. So the idea was and this is the flawed principle was that the audience would watch these newbies who had no renovation experience, renovate a resort badly and then pay for the privilege to fly to Fiji and go and stay on the resort like never going to happen.

00:05:23:07 - 00:05:30:10

David Forster

No one's ever going to pay their hard earned money to go and stay on a resort run by basically, you know, kids.

00:05:30:10 - 00:05:33:14

Hayley Ferguson

So it's all happening live essentially to have an audience that wants to fly.

00:05:33:18 - 00:05:56:00

David Forster

Well I remember we were shooting in February, March, April. And literally about four weeks into the production, the first guests were coming. It wasn't live, live, but they were advertising. So the first group of people were all radio competition winners. And I really feel for them because they just became characters in this reality TV nightmare. They turned up and we had nothing right and the food wasn't right and the accommodation wasn't right.

00:05:56:04 - 00:06:12:04

David Forster

It takes a lot to run a successful resort. And we were just 12 idiots. Plus we had local staff, but also the production was trying to step in and maintain some level of quality control. So we were just kind of woke up every day and were like, what you want us to do, because clearly we had no idea how to run this thing.

00:06:12:04 - 00:06:31:02

David Forster

We were doing food ordering, we were cooking the food, so it was just locals staff doing it run by the production with kind of like walking around. Anyway., it was very, very bizarre. But as a 20 year old, I kind of got to see the other side of it. We didn't get taken away for interviews like a survivor or a MasterChef.

00:06:31:02 - 00:06:37:07

David Forster

It was kind of sort of, I guess more like trying to think of a show maybe Below Deck, like.

00:06:37:08 - 00:06:40:05

Hayley Ferguson

The Block, like without the couch interviews.

00:06:40:11 - 00:07:02:09

David Forster

Pretty much, yes. So we - they'd just literally put this aside for voxies and we would say, well, that didn't go very well. And then we'd go back in and just kind of we had no schedule, we had nothing to do. It was literally more ob doc than anything else, and it was terrible. It was axed maybe five or six weeks on air to the point where they sent us home early.

00:07:02:09 - 00:07:13:19

David Forster

They paid us out of our contracts. They split the prize money, which was 100 K between the people that were left because after each week the guests were meant to vote off the cast members. So only like three or four went out before the show was axed.

00:07:13:22 - 00:07:15:21

Hayley Ferguson

There is a lot going on in this show.

00:07:16:02 - 00:07:31:19

David Forster

And you can't find it anywhere. And I've tried to find it because I just want to watch it for laughs. But it was before the days of YouTube, it was before the days of things being recorded. Like it was kind of after VCRs, just as DVD players were coming in. So no one was really recording anything anymore.

00:07:31:19 - 00:07:37:20

David Forster

It was a very weird time, and only later on when not working TV did I realize how bizarre it was.

00:07:38:13 - 00:07:52:12

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, well, I mean, that story is just crazy. Like, I love how at 20 years old, you're like, Oh yeah, reality TV cool. And it turned out to be like one of the, you know, wildest reality TV formats.

00:07:52:22 - 00:08:13:16

David Forster

And I'm kind of really glad it wasn't successful in hindsight. I got all the experience of it and none of the crap that comes with being like a person who was on Big Brother or anything like that. So I got this incredible insight with really no cost to my, you know, reputation. No one really knows or knew that I was on this show.

00:08:13:17 - 00:08:25:17

David Forster

No one can go back and hold it against me because it doesn't exist anywhere. Like it's this really weird moment in my life. But I loved it in hindsight. What an adventure, you know, for a 20 year old.

00:08:26:00 - 00:08:40:11

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah. And so when it got shut down, what was that feeling like? Because you were obviously going out, you were sort of being on this reality show. And then the moment when they tell you, look, this is not working out, we're going to pay out your contracts, we're sending you home. We're going to split the prize money. What's that feeling like?

00:08:41:02 - 00:09:03:15

David Forster

It's a good question. I was actually disappointed and relieved, so I was hating the job of being on the resort and I was disappointed that I didn't win it. So I was kind of on track to, and all the producers were probably producing me, telling me, you know, the content's great, the audience, the guests, love you, we love you.

00:09:03:17 - 00:09:21:09

David Forster

Keep doing what you're doing. So there was that element of, Oh, maybe I could win this thing, maybe I could get 100 K. And then the other side was, Well, this is a huge failure, and what am I going to do next? So I there was a kind of disappointment that it was over there, really. So I got to go home and we were all very relieved that it was over.

00:09:21:15 - 00:09:28:12

David Forster

We were all sleeping in the same room, only with those I keep in the same room. And we shared one shower. It was weird.

00:09:30:06 - 00:09:38:20

Hayley Ferguson

Looking back on it, you know, as someone who was chosen to be a cast member on reality TV, where do you think you fit into this cast? Why do you think you were cast?

00:09:38:22 - 00:10:03:03

David Forster

I was the mouthy and like honestly, I was pretty much the George of Survivor. I was the mouthy kid who would say anything, do anything. I literally remember there was a scene where cast members got elected like CEO of the resort. So pretty much there was the first guy who was a bit of a numpty and then I endeavored to take him down by just making him seem untrustworthy, which he was.

00:10:03:03 - 00:10:22:08

David Forster

And then everyone elected me the CEO of the resort and the power went to my head as a 20 year old and they shipped me off to Nadi to do some task. But I was walking around Nadi with this fedora on - high on kava, like this kind of plantation owner. It was ridiculous, but I think they enjoyed the fact that I would just play along with anything.

00:10:22:09 - 00:10:42:07

David Forster

Even at that age and having never worked on TV, I kind of knew it was all a joke. And so I was really willing to do what they wanted me to do in a really playful way. I didn't worry about my reputation or how I came across. I didn't care. And so that I think, is the thing that they loved, not because I was going to lie, cheat, steal or, you know, be dastardly and underhanded.

00:10:42:07 - 00:10:57:07

David Forster

But I think it was more that I was just going to say yes to what if a producer came up and said, hey, do you want to like maybe tell her what you really think of her? Then I'd be like, Yeah, I'll do that, you know, done. But I just had no holds barred attitude. So I think that's what got me on.

00:10:57:07 - 00:11:00:11

David Forster

I'll say, you know, I'm a I'm a good talker. I'd probably talk my way into it.

00:11:00:23 - 00:11:09:21

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah. So you've had this crazy experience where you've been whisked off to Fiji on a reality show and then it hasn't really worked out what happened next for you.

00:11:10:06 - 00:11:34:02

David Forster

So after the show finished, a week later I packed up my car and drove to Melbourne and then I just kind of went on a journey of discovery. I moved to Melbourne, I just started working in hospitality. I thought, Well, what can I do? I'll just take it to I make it started acting a lot in theater and found a foothold there, did a lot of shows like local shows, semiprofessional shows, toured a couple of shows and just thought that maybe I was better actor than I was a singer.

00:11:34:02 - 00:11:53:02

David Forster

So progressed into that then I met my now husband, Frank, who is in television but on the production side and was at the time. But he had always had this dream to write a short film. He wanted to be a writer director and he'd ended up in production as many people do, and he had this burning, creative passion.

00:11:53:02 - 00:12:12:21

David Forster

So he wrote this short film called I Can Speak Swedish, and I read it and I thought, Oh, this isn't making a lot of sense. And I asked him some questions. One night over dinner, I said, What's her motivation and why this? And that seems weird that that happens. And he just got quite frustrated, couldn't answer them. He said, Why don't you just write it?

00:12:14:08 - 00:12:33:09

David Forster

So I did. So I rewrote it and I really loved it and I thought, Wow, this is cool. Like I all of my years of acting and writing other stuff sort of kind of came to fruition in this little project we were doing. And then it became a whole big thing. Like we raised a lot of money, $45,000, which is a lot for a short film.

00:12:33:09 - 00:12:55:20

David Forster

Back then, in 2008, we, you know, seriously funded it, we seriously shot it. We got incredible DOP who's now working in the industry on all the big shows who just happen to be free. You know, those are really great actor, really great design designer. We shot in IKEA, which was the first film ever in the world. This is before like 500 days of summer and all to shoot in IKEA.

00:12:56:06 - 00:13:13:05

David Forster

And I mean, we literally turned up with the script. They were like, Can we shoot this here? That's how great we were. And I think they just said yes because we were there and we just wouldn't go away and it wasn't happening. They're like, Why are you shooting here? We're like, We don't know. Someone said Yes. And so then we made the film and then the film quite well.

00:13:13:05 - 00:13:28:18

David Forster

It won a couple of awards around, you know, short film circuit. And then off the back of that film was a very long story. I decided I wanted to be a filmmaker. I'm now 26, I'm in Melbourne. I've been with Frank for a few years and he's kind of like creative things are not for me, but you seem really good at it.

00:13:28:18 - 00:13:45:16

David Forster

I co-directed it and I co-produced it with Frank and I wrote it myself. So then I submitted that to VCA, the Victoria College of the Arts. I thought, if I'm going to do this seriously, I'm going to go back and study. So I got into the VCA to write a director program and was there for the next three years.

00:13:45:21 - 00:13:59:04

Hayley Ferguson

Wow. So I mean, in that sense, making that short film, Frank discovered that he was more suited to the production side of things and you figured out that you really wanted to be behind the scenes and in sort of a creative role.

00:13:59:06 - 00:14:19:01

David Forster

I always put it this way I was a better actor than I was singer, a better director than I was an actor, better writer than I was a director and a better producer than I was director. So I just kind of kept working at how my role kept changing over the years, and I found what I thought I wanted to do, which was singing, ended up becoming producing and you know, people was like, Oh, would you ever go back to acting?

00:14:19:01 - 00:14:42:24

David Forster

Would you ever go back to singing or directing? I was like, No, because I actually really enjoy this part of it's a culmination of everything. But yeah, Frank kind of worked out. He didn't want to be creative, but he is exceptionally creative. He just needs a shoulder to lean on. And also he's a great producer. You know, he's an Emmy nominated producer now, so he's done a lot, but he still prefers to work in collaboration than a sort of sport writer.

00:14:42:24 - 00:14:48:00

Hayley Ferguson

I love it. I feel like you and Frank are like this TV power couple.

00:14:48:00 - 00:15:03:07

David Forster

We try to be. I mean, look, it's kind of happen that way because he's not in television when he was 19, you know, literally a runner on The X Factor on Channel ten. And who wants to be a Millionaire and that kind of stuff. Whereas I came in real light, so I finished my degree when I was 29, now 39.

00:15:03:13 - 00:15:20:10

David Forster

And I literally was like 29 year old stepping put into the TV industry. Everyone had already been in a runner for five years or an AP or something, and I thought, how do I break into this market? And it just became a very happy circumstance of going for a job and getting a different job to the one that I got.

00:15:20:16 - 00:15:31:22

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, and that's what I love about this podcast. I feel like everyone has like a different journey and it's really interesting that, you know, so many people have a different life before television.

00:15:32:11 - 00:15:49:18

David Forster

That's the best thing about TV is it's full of people who didn't end up somewhere else. You know, it's full of all these incredible people with all these incredible skills from somewhere else. But there are very few people in the industry who, like from a young age, but 13 year old, like, I want to be a TV producer, you know, it's not a you want to be firemen and singers and astronauts.

00:15:49:20 - 00:16:17:04

David Forster

So to come to this, it's kind of a group of really, really smart, switched on people who kind of didn't fit in anywhere else, once worked with a producer who said, you have to become an expert in everything really quickly. And I take that to heart because we dive deep into people, particularly in reality and people's stories of what they do and who they are so quickly that you need to have a full and comprehensive understanding of a lot of things to really interact with them in a way you need to to get your job done.

00:16:17:16 - 00:16:41:10

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, definitely. So. I mean, that's such a crazy sort of introduction to reality TV. You know, you go in this reality show, you decide to move to Melbourne. That's where you ended up meeting Frank, your partner, you make a short film, you decide that you want to get into television writing and you inevitably get into the VCA.

00:16:41:19 - 00:17:01:17

David Forster

Yeah, so the film got me into VCA and then the VCA is a three year writer director course. And in that course back then, I don't know if it's still the same, you make three short films in the first year or two in the second year and one major based on the following year. So I made six films over the course of three years and all written and directed by me, you know, as the class you help each other and do lots of different stuff.

00:17:01:17 - 00:17:16:19

David Forster

So that's what's really great course because I did sound on a lot of films and I did ADing on a lot of films, and it is a well-rounded experience of what it's like to be in the industry and all the pressures of the other departments face at the same time as writing and producing your own stuff and my final film I was really happy with.

00:17:16:20 - 00:17:35:14

David Forster

But actually just before I left VCA Frank, he was working on at the time MasterChef the Professionals because he's in production. So that was a spin off show with Matt Preston and Marco Pierre White, where they had professional chefs to a season of MasterChef. He had worked on that. He said to me, I know there's a job going at MasterChef.

00:17:36:00 - 00:18:01:07

David Forster

Here's Maggie Bashfield, number who's the EP. Give her a call. It's for a house AP. Now you probably don't want to do that. But it might be a foot in the door. So I was like 'What's a house AP?' And he was like 'It was the person that lives with the contestants basically as the conduit between the show and reality of their life. And they kind of look after the contestants and report back to the show what the contestants are doing when they are not on the air and look after them and get everything they need.

00:18:01:17 - 00:18:19:07

David Forster

And I thought, okay, I could do that. So I went along. I rang Maggie, I got an interview around long to the house and she didn't know my relationship to Frank Bruzzese. I didn't want his experience of her or her experience of him to taint this in any way. So I just kind of called cold and yeah.

00:18:19:07 - 00:18:38:17

David Forster

And I went along and I basically said, I want to be in a house AP. And she said, well what’s your experience. And I said, “Well, I just got out of uni to study, know, writing, directing.” She was like, “Oh, that's weird. Why don't you just wait there?” And she went outside and she comes back with Tim Tony and David McDonald, who are the co-EP and the series producer.

00:18:38:17 - 00:18:53:15

David Forster

And they were like, How do you feel about being the writer? And I was like, MasterChef has a writer? Yeah, you know, for the challenges and the verdicts and that sort of stuff. And I was a huge MasterChef fan. And I watched series one and two and three and four loved them all. It was kind of a thing.

00:18:53:15 - 00:19:05:22

David Forster

Everyone watched it back then and I loved it. I love the tone of it. I love food because I'd worked in hospitality for a long time. I just thought, this is this is right up my alley. And they said, You want to be the writer? And I said, I don't know what that is.

00:19:05:23 - 00:19:22:18

David Forster

And Tim was like, Don't worry, we'll will teach you. And I must have seen something. They must have noticed. And I kind of said, Write a dropped script is a challenge. We want you to write a script for it. And I just went back and watched a bunch of mashup episodes and kind of paraphrased and rewrote anyway.

00:19:22:18 - 00:19:35:10

David Forster

So I, I got that role as the writer and I remember saying that if, you know, doing that, Just tell me if I'm really shit at it, please tell me. And he was like, Oh, don't worry, we will.

00:19:35:24 - 00:19:38:18

Hayley Ferguson

And I can picture him saying that as well.

00:19:40:15 - 00:19:55:15

David Forster

Anyway, they were brilliant. I loved it and I just kind of threw myself into that. So that was my first literal foray into it. And then afterwards, after I got the job, I said to Margie; You know, I'm I'm dating this guy called Frank. She's like, Frank? Frank Bruzzese. And I was like, Yeah, she's like “Oh thank god you didn’t tell me that.”

00:19:55:15 - 00:20:02:21

David Forster

I was like, Why? She said I would have tried to put you in production. So yeah, that's how I got into it.

00:20:03:00 - 00:20:18:19

Hayley Ferguson

That's amazing. I mean, I feel like that's kind of like a serendipitous sort of meeting in terms of the writer role being available at that time. To start at a writer level on a very popular show like MasterChef is is an incredible start.

00:20:19:05 - 00:20:37:15

David Forster

I agree. And I think you've probably talked to more people about this than anyone on it. And I would say I reckon everyone's story has a story like that. And it's the whole point of this podcast and why it's great because everyone's journey into television is so different. You know, some people start at around 11, 20 years and work their way up and some people just kind of come straight in from a different industry.

00:20:37:18 - 00:20:57:18

David Forster

And I found, when I’ve told this story in the past that I think my age had a lot to do with it. I mean, I'm 29 at this point, so I'm probably a lot older than a lot of people who are probably going to that role. And also, it's a very specific, you know, having the understanding of telling a story, being good with words, being able to write for television.

00:20:57:18 - 00:21:19:16

David Forster

A lot of people who've done that role in the past have been producers who’ve moved kind of sideways or, you know, AP’s have stepped up who were not quite ready for it or didn't quite understand it. There are people who've written in that role who don't even watch the show, and that's evident. So I think they were kind of happy that they got a fan who had a degree, who was also old enough to understand and take a bit of criticism and not worry about it.

00:21:19:17 - 00:21:31:05

David Forster

So I think all those things worked in my favor. But yeah, it was a very bizarre first role because I thought I was walking in, getting the house AP role and I walked out as the writer.

00:21:31:05 - 00:21:42:07

Hayley Ferguson

Obviously, all your experience when you were studying was, you know, writing, writing characters, writing, you know, drama, whereas this was actually like writing for real people.

00:21:42:09 - 00:22:01:20

David Forster

It was weird writing for three people as opposed writing characters. You know, when you create everything and this it was sort of like, I need to mimic or at least tell the story through Matt's voice or Gary's voice. What would George say? What are the words George would use? And I found it very difficult. I threw myself into it because I thought I just remember this feeling in the back of my head.

00:22:01:20 - 00:22:25:13

David Forster

It's I've got to be really good at this. I'm just going to be really good at this. This is my one shot. And so I, I absolutely threw myself into it. And in true dire fashion and made the role bigger than what it was originally. So I inserted myself into the can I come into this meeting and maybe I could and then throw in when I'm in that meeting, I just kind of add some helpful contribution and then I sort of think, Oh, maybe he should be more meetings.

00:22:25:13 - 00:22:51:20

David Forster

So I kind of waste of my way in there. But also there's good stuff to say and I thought I could make it better. And I think I'd like to think that I did. I mean, I was just literally writing Welcome to MasterChef. Today we're doing Mystery Box, not in the verdicts when we get down to the arms in the eyes of who was winning and who was losing and why, you know, that's where the real writing begins, because you're distilling everything of the episode into basically one page of verdict of why you win and why you lose.

00:22:51:20 - 00:23:10:16

David Forster

And I thought, I can use my dramatic training here to make this better rather than just, you know, you say it's my final, so you're out. I thought I can structure this verdict in a way I can really take it down to that final and the person going home is hungry. I can really bring drama to that, which probably other people couldn't have done.

00:23:10:16 - 00:23:32:20

David Forster

And that's where I kind of got the ear of the producers. And I also found this guy knows what he's talking about. Of all of my dramatic training came into that moment because at the end were telling stories. You want them to be thrilling. It all leads to a climax. Everything's the same, you know, whether you're telling real stories or reality stories or dramatic stories, it's all the same as opposed producing, you know, it's all the same kind of storytelling.

00:23:32:20 - 00:23:47:05

David Forster

And so that helped. And that's how I kind of made that role bigger than what it was. And then kind of went from in the next job I got wasn't a write a good job. So, you know, I think making an impression on people was probably the best thing I did at that point.

00:23:47:14 - 00:23:54:24

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, definitely. I can you step through some of the, I guess, key moments in your career after that first writing role?

00:23:55:00 - 00:24:14:07

David Forster

Yeah, the writing role was in 2013, and I have a very dear and soft spot in my heart for a guy called Tim Tony, who was my mentor. Surprisingly so. He never intended to be, and I never intended for him to be. But from that role, he was a series producer. He's television's Tim's honest on everything is now retired and a beautiful man.

00:24:14:07 - 00:24:41:01

David Forster

And everyone who's ever worked with him thinks he's beautiful man. And he is. And he then said, Hey, I've got a commission at Shine Australia, which was the company then at the time. Australia was commissioned to make a documentary series called Living with the Enemy and that was a six part documentary series for SBS. It was kind of a dark but kind of reality where you take two people on opposing sides of an issue, a controversial issue, and ask them to live with each other for ten days, five days in this in their house and five days.

00:24:41:01 - 00:24:58:02

David Forster

And so we had six different issues like Islam, gun ownership, homosexuality and gay marriage, particularly, which wasn't legal at the time. And we had to find these participants and we had to find things for them to do and put them in each other's house. And so Tim Tony said, do you want to come and just work on it?

00:24:58:06 - 00:25:15:23

David Forster

You know, I appreciate your insight. I appreciate your skills. I think I can really you can help. So he's like, I didn't know what he wanted me to do, but he just wanted me to be around. So I thought, Yeah, oh yeah. This is absolutely what I, I love topical issues. I thought at that point I wanted to be in Tokyo maybe as well.

00:25:15:23 - 00:25:43:20

David Forster

So it was a bit of crossover into that. I love to work with Tim, go to work with amazing people. We made a really strong show. It took a year. So after MasterChef I went to Sydney and moved to Sydney, which was quite an upheaval because I'm currently dating a guy for five years. We live together and I just said to Frank, I need to take this opportunity, you know, and I hope you support me in that he did not fly back when I could, but you know, on an AP wage trying to live in Sydney, have a house in Melbourne and then come back when you could.

00:25:43:20 - 00:26:05:17

David Forster

I kind of ended up getting back every third week and stuff, but it was a really, really great experience for me. I learned a lot about reality TV making is an app, which is essentially my role on a documentary series for ISPs. You know, casting people, real people, issues, clearances, archival footage, post-production, all of that. It was a really one stop shop of experience and I loved everything.

00:26:05:17 - 00:26:20:01

David Forster

So that was a year. And then I got the call from Margie. A year later, about MasterChef. She said, Hey, do you want to come back to us yet? But not as the writer. We're sort of restructuring the creative team, and we'd like you to be what they call a cycle producer. So MasterChef is so long.

00:26:20:01 - 00:26:36:22

David Forster

It has on air cycles. Every week is an on air cycle. So, you know, Sunday to Thursday is one cycle, the next Sunday to Thursday is another is 12 hours. So they had to cycle producers, one that would do week one and one would do week two. And then they'd go, so you'd have all the ratings. And I thought, Yes, I do want to do that.

00:26:36:22 - 00:26:57:18

David Forster

And I got to come back and produce episodes, find the chefs, you know, produce the challenges, basically a producer and I did that for two years. I did season seven and season eight and season seven was brilliant. It was the season we one. It was a real reinvention of the brand, you know, season five, which was my writing season, was it was the boys versus girls season, the controversial one.

00:26:58:16 - 00:27:18:00

David Forster

It was going off the rails, which was not our intention, but it was the way to promote it. And everyone just thought the whole season was going to be boys versus girls anyway, long story short. So the next thing was becoming a producer on MasterChef. What was a cycle producer? And from there, I did that for two years and then I had a kind of a lull.

00:27:18:06 - 00:27:38:08

David Forster

Then I thought, I don't want to do that again. It was quite a frustrating job just because you really were a middle man. I answer to the series producer and the executive producer and Pete Newman, who at the time was a creative director of the company and had a keen interest in lots of show, clearly, because the big show, but also then you had to communicate with all the heads of departments.

00:27:38:12 - 00:27:59:12

David Forster

So art, lighting, food, camera, everyone. So it was just this kind of middle man communication job, which was really great but also really hard because you constantly the person everyone's at. Yeah. Anyway so I thought I have to walk away after season that I couldn't think of doing another season of that. It's a long show, it's a nine months commitment just for production.

00:27:59:19 - 00:28:18:12

David Forster

And I thought, wow, that is it's a mad marathon, not a sprint. And I thought, I need to do something else. So I stepped away from MasterChef and I didn't quite know what I was going to do. Margie called again and she said, I'm doing a reinvention of The Biggest Loser. So we did The Biggest Loser Transformed. And she said, Do you want to work on that?

00:28:18:12 - 00:28:39:12

David Forster

And I said, Look, what I really want to do is I want to get experience being on the front desk and being on the mic, calling the show, talking to the talent during the recording of the show, and just being there in that live moment. So I'd seen it happen from sort of the back to so seeing the other producers, the series producers, the executive producers talking to the talent and I was always really good with talent.

00:28:39:12 - 00:28:59:17

David Forster

I worked really well with the boys, the old MasterChef judges, and I thought, I really want to get into that. She said, Yeah, absolutely. You know, we can find a role for you all with a host producer. So I was producing Fiona Faulkner, who is the host of the Exclusive Transformed and Fiona, a lovely girl, but television wasn't ever her dream or vision.

00:28:59:19 - 00:29:14:04

David Forster

And I had this opportunity to really help her get better. So my job was to produce her in all her scenes, whether that was a way in or whether it was a challenge. Whenever she was there, I was there. And also some of the other talent, not so much the trainers because I did their own thing.

00:29:14:05 - 00:29:17:16

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, The Biggest Loser: Transformed - that's where we actually met.

00:29:17:16 - 00:29:39:13

David Forster

Yes, it was. I think that's a classic example of taking something that people love about the show and removing it. You know, it was basically to transform. But then, you know, I think it was Nikki, the latest person, everything. She weighed like 73 kilos coming into the show. Yeah. And everyone's watching and I'm going on with 73 kilograms.

00:29:40:00 - 00:29:59:19

David Forster

What's and it was look it was a really great experience for me because I got to be on the mic talking to the owner, helping it through it all, working with the director as well, sitting right next to me, working from that case. And it was great working with producers to try and get their vision. And so it was a very, very interesting role.

00:29:59:22 - 00:30:17:15

David Forster

And from there I just kind of floated around. I did a MasterChef, went to Japan that year, the year I wasn't working on season nine, and they needed a producer to come in for a couple of months to just do the Japanese trip. So I thought, Oh, I put my hand up for that. 

00:30:17:15 - 00:30:18:11

Hayley Ferguson

It's a good gig.

00:30:18:16 - 00:30:32:22

David Forster

It's a good gig. But it was a tough gig too, because you're kind of working outside of the show. Everyone else is making sure I don't know the contestants because I haven't done the season. I don't really know the team. I mean, some of the teams that worked on the show and many brought over, but I didn't know.

00:30:33:03 - 00:30:48:04

David Forster

And they were just like his Japan go and Japan's an exceptionally difficult place to work as I found that because they're very rigid, lovely to visit. I love it. It's one of my favorite places. I'm going back to see it, but I don't ever work there again. It's a very, very difficult place to produce an Australian TV show.

00:30:48:04 - 00:31:04:14

David Forster

But it was a it was a great experience and also fun. So we did Japan and then I thought, Well, what do I do next? You know, I don't really want to be a psycho producer anymore and Mass Chef Biggest Loser was great experience. I want to stay on the mike. So what do I do? And then Survivor popped up.

00:31:04:19 - 00:31:11:01

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, let's talk about Survivor because that first season of Survivor that was actually before The Biggest Loser: Transformed.

00:31:11:19 - 00:31:34:18

David Forster

You’re, right. It was. Let's backtrack because Survivor - it was the start of what was the rest of my career. And I remember I'd made it very clear to Pete Newman, who I was working quite close with on season eight of Marste. As the cyle producer, we regularly have pitch meetings and challenge meetings. He'd fly down, we would talk a lot, you know, we had a good relationship and he said, Look, I've got some exciting news.

00:31:34:20 - 00:31:50:15

David Forster

Channel Ten has just bought the rights to Survivor. He knew I was a huge Survivor fan of the US show - we talked about it a lot. In MasterChef, we have the MasterChef auction which is kind of like the Survivor auction. We always think  of how can we take and modify good challenges from other TV shows.

00:31:50:15 - 00:32:09:03

David Forster

So he knew I was a huge Survivor fan and when he said, Do you want to work on it? I said, I do want to work on it. And I don't know what I want to do. So we carved out this role with so they’d hired Jonathan as the host and he's an actor of course, he'd never done any reality TV.

00:32:09:03 - 00:32:26:08

David Forster

And I thought, okay, right. I'm a former director. I worked a lot with actors, I know how to communicate, but literally trained in how to communicate with actors. I thought, I can do that. I'll produce Jonathan. And he said, What do you want to do? And I said, Well, I don't really have the experience of a story producer going to be on the beaches and interviewing them and following story.

00:32:26:08 - 00:32:46:08

David Forster

I can do that, but I think I'll be better served working with the host briefing, the host running the tribal councils. I didn't know how Survivor was produced. I'd never been to the American set. And also Jeff is a one man band. Like I imagine he just rolls into trial and just says, this is what I want to talk about. I knew Jonathan is new to the franchise.

00:32:46:08 - 00:32:57:06

David Forster

Also new to reality TV. Probably wouldn't be that. So then I'll produce Jonathan. I said yes and then - you were there and it was a hell of an experience.

00:32:57:06 - 00:33:03:00

Hayley Ferguson

I wasn't there that season. I did casting only that season. Yeah, but yeah, I heard all the stories.

00:33:03:08 - 00:33:19:05

David Forster

So basically what we had was an American actor coming to an Australian production. So for example, the first time we had a rehearsal, a dry run, as we call it, we're all in that very first day in Samoa. All the trucks drove up with all the state contestants on the back because it's a rehearsal just for cameras to see where to put it and everything.

00:33:19:08 - 00:33:37:11

David Forster

And when they got out, Jonathan was going to be standing there. He'd say the lines Survior’s ready and all the challenge rules, and then we'd get out. And he thought, rehearsal. And in the acting world as well, rehearsal is literally the actor, the director and maybe the DOP maybe. And they block it out and they work out where they're going to stand and all the other actors, and that's it.

00:33:37:13 - 00:34:00:00

David Forster

He turns up on set and there are 16 cameras and 100 crew, fake contestants. Literally in that moment I saw in his eyes, I made a huge mistake in my career and he just had no idea what was going to happen. He's a huge fan of the American show, but obviously he had no idea what goes into making reality TV.

00:34:00:00 - 00:34:20:16

David Forster

All his experience, all his understanding of it came from drama, which is a closed set, very different. And it was a journey of discovery season one where he had to learn the ropes of reality TV having an earpiece. I wasn't in his ear, Tim Tony was in his ear. So I had to kind of talk Jonathan through it and kind of basically be his coach and his shoulder to cry on. And so through that first season, we kind of created this bond of both doing something for the first time. And he, I think, felt quite indebted to me about the way it helped him through it. And I was really proud of the way he grew in that season and how he got there.

00:34:42:05 - 00:35:01:02

David Forster

So it was interesting watching someone do something the first time on television. But yeah, that was his producing role. And then season two, we did the same again. And then season three I started working in his ear. So I had the experience on Biggest Loser by this point for season three, and I said, maybe I should just, you know, talk to Jonathan.

00:35:01:04 - 00:35:04:08

David Forster

And for me, the role grew.

00:35:05:03 - 00:35:30:02

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah. Well, I mean, you mentioned earlier you were talking about getting yourself into situations and on season one, I like I didn't get to go over I'd done casting and an executive at the time, ee had been working with me before he left to go and do the show. He knew like I was obsessed with Survivor and I'd loved it all my life and I really would wanted to be out there.

00:35:30:02 - 00:35:47:20

Hayley Ferguson

And it's funny, like he was trying to include me and just do something nice. And he sent me a photo one day of an idol hiding location and was like, What do you think of this? I got the message. And because I'm like, a Survivor nerd, I instantly messaged back and wrote out a Survivor Idol clue to that spot

00:35:49:00 - 00:36:03:24

Hayley Ferguson

And he's like, Did you just write that? And I was like, Yeah. And he's like, Oh, okay, do you want to do the rest? So he would send me photos of all the Idol spots and I would write clues based on the photos, right? Like rhyming idol clues for the location that were used to the show.

00:36:04:07 - 00:36:24:23

David Forster

Amazing. I love that. And that's that's such a great story because it's true. I think everyone in TV who finds that place they want to be just kind of says, oh, by the way, I'm here and I want to do it. And look at that. Like the next season you're on the island, you know? And the thing with Jonathan and I was we Jonathan is also a very particular person and he has a very particular way of working, which I really respect.

00:36:25:02 - 00:36:43:13

David Forster

And I think a lot of people didn't quite understand it because he was an actor and he had a process. And so I've kind of had this niche with Jonathan, you know, I became known as the Jonathan Whisperer, where I could just kind of get performances out of him and get him to a place where he would do what he needed to do in a really good way.

00:36:43:14 - 00:36:59:13

David Forster

For example, the closing lines, I thought, this can be a moment where we can really allow Jonathan to shine, you know, and to say something witty into the audience, to love him. And, you know, he'll be ingratiated to the cast and to the audience. And at the time the other show was still doing them. They don't do them anymore.

00:36:59:15 - 00:37:21:08

David Forster

But it was a sort of a really tough task to try and come up with a witty line that would work in summing up the episode that we didn't know what it was yet because it hadn't been edited, but trying to take all the big themes of the tribal or that the entire episode and put them all into one line in a 30 minute time frame, you know, because you do it writing it while time was going on.

00:37:21:11 - 00:37:46:10

David Forster

But Jonathan became an integral part of that. And he, you know, really loved that moment. And we had this kind of opportunity to really create something that became iconic, you know, like and people wait for it now, include it, it and all that sort of stuff. So I think that giving him the opportunity to be a part of that, and rather than just being the automaton who was saying the words that, you know, so that was really good.

00:37:46:10 - 00:38:05:04

David Forster

It was a great part of establishing Jonathan as a character because he was playing himself for the first time ever, and I think he really wanted something to tie himself to, you know? So Survivor Jonathan is very close to real Jonathan. Real Jonathan, you know, he's a lot funnier and a lot ruder and a lot more off the cuff than Survivor Jonathan is.

00:38:05:04 - 00:38:06:06

David Forster

But it's pretty close.

00:38:06:16 - 00:38:22:08

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, I guess just to clarify, I mean, when you say you're a TV writer and you write for MasterChef and Australian Survivor, I mean, the misconception a lot of the time with reality TV that it's all scripted and I guess can you just explain what you're actually scripting?

00:38:23:08 - 00:38:38:16

David Forster

Absolutely. Every reality show has the fans or the ones I work on, which is competition, reality, as opposed to like the Hills has the bones of a competition around it. So I write the rules of the competition. So I work with a MasterChef tonight. It's a mystery box day. You know what we love about mystery boxes? The surprise.

00:38:38:16 - 00:38:57:12

David Forster

So today is a huge surprise. So those lines are scripted and then the verdict is in massive ship a scripted. So all the tastings are of course, all the tastings of the judges just being the judges. But those bones are what needs to be scripted because you need to be very clear with the rules. You need to be very clear with the challenge so the audience understands and the contestants understand.

00:38:57:15 - 00:39:21:09

David Forster

So those are the things that we were in the Survivor since we write the challenge description. So, you know, it's today's a new challenge. This is the challenge. And we write it out. But also we we talk about the the trials at length. So after the challenge and as a losing tribal someone's one individual immunity, we go back to the tribe and we write a bunch of questions that we think are going to bring out the story of the tribe at that time.

00:39:21:09 - 00:39:41:01

David Forster

And that takes a lot of work, you know, trying to work out where the story is, who's against who, who's working with food and also tackle the big themes of trust and betrayal and all those things, but in a very pointed way, so that Jonathan can roll into that tribal with, you know, 15 to 20 questions that are really well written, that get to the heart of the matter.

00:39:41:01 - 00:39:57:04

David Forster

And he can kind of put them in the rolodex of his head, which is amazing, and then just pull them out at the right time in the tribal. When someone goes to a point that fits question number 12, he'll just pull it out of his hand and go, right, I'm going to ask the question. So that tree written, but they need to be malleable in time when they come out.

00:39:57:04 - 00:40:16:09

David Forster

So yeah, we don't write the like. This is what the contestants say, but we need to write the frame in which the contestants then play around it. So that frame is just kind of long. And then there's no direction to it where we say, Here's your sandbox plan, and that that is what we write. That's the scripted part of it.

00:40:16:09 - 00:40:21:03

David Forster

And, you know, it's it's the only way to get the freedom is to have the full.

00:40:21:12 - 00:40:40:13

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah. And I guess that's the best thing about working on these shows with reality contestants. You don't control them, you know, they do things that are unexpected. And that's when those magic moments on television actually happen when, you know, something completely unexpected happens. And Jonathan's very good at rolling with that in the moment.

00:40:40:19 - 00:41:06:11

David Forster

Well, that's exactly it. And the best TV and the best reality TV is when it is so free and unscripted. You know, basically what I like to say is as good confusion is bad confusion. Bad confusion is when the audience or the contestants don't know what's happening. So they don't know the rules of the game that they're playing or they don't know what would happen if some this twist played out or is good confusion is I know all the rules.

00:41:06:11 - 00:41:29:10

David Forster

I just don't know how I'm going to deal with it, you know, and I'm going to engage you. And I don't quite know how you're going to react. I'm confused. So good confusion is drama and confusion is just I don't know what I'm watching. So we need to remove bad confusion so good confusion can exist. And that that's the best part about reality is that what's going to happen next in season eight of Survivor.

00:41:29:16 - 00:41:50:18

David Forster

You know that tribal that we've all watched with George and Simon going at it and Frasier going on was the prime example was a really structured environment. So, you know here's the challenge someone will be immune. Simon is now immune. Now what? That's the good confusion. And we're seeing George operate in that kind of chaos created magic.

00:41:51:05 - 00:42:06:08

Hayley Ferguson

You know? Yeah. And I think that moment specifically, it is one of those things we could we could never predict the way that that was going to end up. You know, I myself, you know, I was in the control room that night, so I knew how crazy it was. And what people, you know, might not know is that yes.

00:42:06:08 - 00:42:19:23

Hayley Ferguson

That are like dark. But when they're whispering, we don't necessarily he everything they're saying. So the moment where Raisa is getting voted out was actually as big a shock to us as it was to the audience.

00:42:19:23 - 00:42:36:12

David Forster

Wasn't it a joy, though, to be in that moment and not know what was about to happen? Because as producers we strive to know what's about to happen. So then we can extract as much juice out of that drama as we can, you know, just to create some interest. And, you know, it's going to happen. But you just want to create a bit of drama.

00:42:36:12 - 00:42:55:04

David Forster

But whereas is in this moment, we had no idea what was going to happen. We just didn't know. And yes, you said we couldn't hear what they were saying. So when phrases, books were being written down in the voting booth, we were genuinely shocked. And that very rarely happens as a producer on TV because they kind of hear all the information and you know what's going to happen.

00:42:55:04 - 00:42:57:04

David Forster

And that was so exciting to see it happen.

00:42:57:11 - 00:43:17:19

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah. And there's nothing that compares to that kind of adrenaline that you get like this. There's been a few moments over the years. It's like Benji telling Shaun to play the idol for yourself. Like there's those moments that there's no way that we can control what happens there. It's in the contestants hands and. Our heart is in our throat.

00:43:18:06 - 00:43:38:17

Hayley Ferguson

You know, sometimes we have to, like, just control ourselves because we are so on the edge of our seats. And it's it's the moment after something big like that happens where it's like magic moment of television and it's the debrief afterwards. Our heads are all spinning and everyone sort of comes together trying to figure out like, Oh, so why did why did they do that in the moment or what happened there?

00:43:38:17 - 00:43:41:09

Hayley Ferguson

Or, Oh, my God. Like, I love that part of it.

00:43:41:16 - 00:44:06:21

David Forster

It's so exciting and I feel really blessed and honored to be able to do that as a job. And I remember after that Tribal with Simon and George, I rang Amelia Fisk, who’s my boss, and I said, I think we might have just filmed the best tribal ever. You know, I don't want to be biased about it, but I've seen a lot of them, probably 150, and that's certainly the best one we've ever filmed.

00:44:06:21 - 00:44:32:22

David Forster

I don't know about world wide, and I just remember thinking, that is so rare, you know, it's like touching the void. It's just so hard to do and all the pieces have to be in the right spot. And I think as producers we allowed those pieces to be in the right spot. But there there's also a huge amount of like, you know, the the road to any finished show is littered with moments that didn't happen, things you thought were going to be big and then they weren't, or a confrontation you thought was going to happen, then it didn't.

00:44:32:22 - 00:44:49:18

David Forster

Or someone who really just followed their pride and got on with it. And you sort of thought, Wow, you know, I thought you'd be more upset than that, or I thought you'd be more excited than that. But sometimes it just all comes together in the most unexpected way. And the key then is to to make the show around that moment, you know.

00:44:49:18 - 00:45:09:00

David Forster

And then I think Toby and the edit team did such a great job as that. Tribal went for 45 minutes at the end of the night and everyone on Twitter was like, There's 45 minutes to go and we're going to tribal. What's happening is it plays out. You sort of think, oh, this is you just people were just on a ride with that tribal not knowing what was going to happen next.

00:45:09:12 - 00:45:28:09

David Forster

Just literally on the rollercoaster of this, you couldn't look away and it was truly special to be a part of. And that is what I want to create going forward. You know, moments like that, what make seasons and from that moment on when you watched that season of Survivor that just finished, you sort of thought, I'm in safe hands, you know, I know I'm going to get good stuff.

00:45:28:22 - 00:45:32:01

David Forster

So that being able to make that is really special.

00:45:32:11 - 00:45:55:03

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, definitely. And you know, for you, I guess over the years you started on MasterChef. You work your way up on that show. You've also work your way up on Australian Survivor into, you know, from host producing to series producing. And now you're at the helm as the executive producer of both shows. So you're the executive producer of MasterChef, you're also the executive producer of Australian Survivor.

00:45:55:05 - 00:46:01:03

Hayley Ferguson

Can you explain in simple terms, I guess, what an executive producer does?

00:46:01:03 - 00:46:25:20

David Forster

So executive producer has the final say on pretty much everything creative in production. So you are the boss of the team, the crew, and also the creative. Usually as a series producer, I just look after the creative and the team, not so much. Whereas as the executive producer, you're looking out for the welfare of the team, for building the team of the crew and irresponsible in a legal sense for a lot of things in terms of risk assessments and safety.

00:46:26:00 - 00:46:45:17

David Forster

So basically you're just the final say when it comes to anything. And and I think the the way I choose to work is I'm quite a trusting person. And I also know that I am lucky enough to work on two of the best run reality shows in the country and be supported by an amazing company who have a great head office and support team about me.

00:46:45:21 - 00:47:04:14

David Forster

All those things are in place really strongly. So then when it comes to the compartmentalized thing of making and building a team in a show, I can always lean on that really well. But I think that what an executive producer does is really just set the tone for the show and massive and Survivor are well-worn franchises. You know, we're not reinventing the wheel here.

00:47:04:19 - 00:47:22:22

David Forster

So it's you just have to guide the ship, you know, keep your hand on the on the rudder and make sure it doesn't go, of course. But at the same time, take it in a place where it's quite exciting to watch and new and different. But I find my way of operating is to entrust people with what they do.

00:47:22:23 - 00:47:45:06

David Forster

Let's put it this way it's a great cast of reality contestants. It's 95% of the job of getting the show going. If the cast is going to show be good no matter how hard you try to screw it up. If the cast is bad then the show can't really save it. The cast is everything, you know the characters in season eight of survival were second to none shifts, so that's why the show is so good in the end.

00:47:45:06 - 00:48:14:16

David Forster

Whereas the same thing goes for the crew. If the crew is full of people that are talented, responsible, good working, hard working people, then the show will run really well. And then they they want to be there and they want to make sure if the crew is full of people who are just there for a paycheck or don't really love the show or don't watch the show or aren't part of the team or they for the wrong reasons, then it's really hard to make a harmonious and functioning working environment, particularly on a show like Survivor, which is, you know, 3000, 4000 kilometers away from home.

00:48:14:21 - 00:48:32:13

David Forster

Everyone's away from their families. Everyone's doing it tough. So to me, my goal is an EP is really just in a production sense to build a team which is there for the right reasons that I trust, and then I just let them do their job. I'm not going to get in the way of the first day scheduling. I'm not going to question, you know, the transport guy.

00:48:32:15 - 00:48:49:08

David Forster

I just want you to feel supported to do the best version of you for the show. The creative sense, I think, is a bit more hands on for me because that's where I come from that side of things, I really am always thinking about premise, what the premise of the show is, and I'm always thinking about how I deliver on that premise.

00:48:49:14 - 00:49:07:17

David Forster

So it's bigger picture than what the interview question is here or there. It's bigger picture than, you know, how that's that set looks or whether that props in showed or whether the lighting's a bit hot. I mean, that all comes into it and I have an opinion about them if I'm asked. But for me, the greatest, strongest thing is the premise and delivering on that.

00:49:07:17 - 00:49:16:18

David Forster

So the huge theme of show the characters being realized to their full potential, that's what the audience looks at, that's what they remember. So that for me is what being a Nathan's.

00:49:17:09 - 00:49:31:09

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah. And I mean, this season of Australian Survivor, it's been, I guess, universally hailed as one of the greatest seasons, not just of Australian Survivor, but of all time. Why do you think this season was kind of the perfect storm?

00:49:31:21 - 00:49:53:11

David Forster

Yeah, maybe. I don't know, but I can guess. I think what was so good about it is it for me was a theme that was very universal. So we all watch movies, right? We all and the storytelling always has a hero and a villain like it always has an antagonist, the protagonist and the protagonist is going on a journey and the antagonist gets in the way and the protagonist has to overcome that or succumb to it.

00:49:53:11 - 00:50:12:19

David Forster

And that's why it's either a comedy or a tragedy. I mean, like going back to basics with storytelling. Yeah. So that's why Heroes versus Villains is such a universal theme. You know, we all watch movies where the hero fights to the end and defeats the villain, and that's the end of the movie. And so because we can identify with that, it's in our bones, we get it's in our dialog, it's in our culture.

00:50:12:19 - 00:50:31:20

David Forster

We can then go, all right, how do we play with that? And my big thing with this cast was I wanted every hero to have a villain aside and no one and every villain to have a heroic side which would come out later on to create a bit of character development. You know, George was probably the ultimate villain in that he kind of sliced his best friend and wheeled and dealed, and he did dastardly things.

00:50:31:20 - 00:51:04:23

David Forster

But at the heart of him is an exceptionally loyal person. And if you look at the people he took to the end, they were his closest allies, except for maybe Johnny. But, you know, so there was this heroic streak to him. Jerry on the other side started as a hero and then turned into a villain with a hit list of all these other heroic who tried made the interest in the make for me in this story was the the interesting point of humanity and survivor has always been about creating a society or a microcosm of people, taking them out of everything they know, and this being the truest version of themselves in the context of

00:51:04:23 - 00:51:28:17

David Forster

this game. And so that theme allowed that to happen really, really strongly. Plus, we had a lot of great talent and great characters, you know, George, Simon, Shonee, you know, the returning players. Jordie. But also the new ones. Liz and Jerry And they had a really great character arc, you know, Rogue. 

00:51:28:17 - 00:51:45:09

David Forster

So when you've got a cast full of interesting characters, I think that was great. It was going back to Samoa, you know, back overseas again. It was the Heroes versus Villains theme and there was just so much history going into that game. Plus, I think it had a really strong crew of all the people.

00:51:45:11 - 00:52:06:03

David Forster

Like it was really a who's who of Survivor royalty, self included, people coming back to work on the show after a couple of years absence and really throwing themselves into making the best survivor possible. And, you know, we we had that sorted out on the production side. So therefore the creative side had the best chance of success. And my God, what a success.

00:52:06:03 - 00:52:15:14

David Forster

And I'm a bit intimidated now because I'm like, Why back that up? What makes like, how do we make a different or better version of that? I don't know. It's going to be exciting.

00:52:16:13 - 00:52:45:12

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah and I mean the US did Heroes versus Villains theme many years ago over 20 seasons ago and I guess it could have been quite intimidating to go okay everyone thinks that that is one of the best seasons of all time, if not the best and we're naturally going to be compared to it. And I think to create a season that stacks up against it and you know, people will have arguments of which was the better Heroes versus Villains - to actually be on that level is a pretty incredible feat.

00:52:45:17 - 00:53:05:15

David Forster

I honestly as a huge fan of American Survivor, I understand where they're now. And, you know, they're 44 seasons in. We're eight seasons in. So they have a different understanding of the progression of their game to where they're at. But I'm just really glad in the in the context of Australian Survivor, we obviously make 24 episodes and many of them are not only they're a lot longer.

00:53:05:16 - 00:53:38:13

David Forster

We have I think hit the sweet spot with Australian Survivor of story and character. And you know, we now have this ability to tell these deep, rich, compelling, not clunky stories of these people playing this game and being their truest versions of themselves in the timeframe frame. Just worked out like it used to feel quite long. We've just now found this lovely pace and this lovely space with the experience of making the show for many years of how to make the show to the to the purest version of itself and and and our vision of it.

00:53:38:13 - 00:53:55:23

David Forster

And that's why I think it's hitting. I think it's hitting because it feels like it's just it's grown up. I think that's what it is. Survivors growing up in Australia and we've finally grown into our shoes, we've grown into our outfit and now it feels like it fits really well. And so yeah, the American show is a very different show.

00:53:56:07 - 00:54:16:10

David Forster

It's 13 episodes, 14 episodes - 42 minute episodes, if that. They move so quick and now the game moves even quicker that they've decided it's something else. And I think it's interesting to watch. People really love the Australian version because it's slowed down, it's character focused, it's all of these things that the American survivor used to be before it just moved on and evolved.

00:54:16:10 - 00:54:27:02

David Forster

And like the Americans and I don't know if we could do this in season 44 of Australia, so I think people would want something else so I can see why the US show is going that way. But I love that we are doing what we do.

00:54:27:11 - 00:54:36:09

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, definitely. Now Survivor fans are very passionate. When the show is going to air, do you follow what the fans are saying? Are you sort of having a peak on Twitter?

00:54:36:15 - 00:54:54:05

David Forster

I am. I am. I think I'm one of those people who reads Twitter. And I don't regret it because I'm not a scientist. But I do read Twitter. And I think it's really important to understand where your audience is at. Like a lot of people in reality TV or TV generally kind of forget who we're making it for.

00:54:54:12 - 00:55:14:02

David Forster

But you need to go into that conversation on Twitter with a bit of tongue in cheek and an understanding that most people are just saying what the first thing that comes to mind with no filter. So once I filter out all that, I can get a true sense of what that what the feeling is about any given thing, whether it's a twist or a character or a say.

00:55:14:02 - 00:55:42:03

David Forster

So you can generally feel the love quite quickly and you can generally feel disgust quite quickly. And you can't take any one specific tweet or one specific argument. You have to just take it as a whole. And it's 95% of people are loving something, then you probably done a good job and it's 95% of people adding it, then it probably needs a rating and I there are constraints we work with within Australians about, but we have to have not only because we have a certain amount of episodes, but I love that we take on a challenge head on and some of them work better than others, some of them kind of quash a big move,

00:55:42:09 - 00:55:58:06

David Forster

you know, and the audience gets upset about that. But at the same time, it's all part of the it's all part of the show. And you have to roll with those punches. And I think that watching audience reaction is both satisfying and frustrating. For me as a producer, I'd rather have people talking about the show than not tweeting at all.

00:55:58:07 - 00:56:13:18

David Forster

If there are 20 tweets when Survivor episode goes to air, I'd be pretty upset. But the fact that there are thousands and thousands of tweets that go for we're on the air is people engaging the show, loving or hating it? You know, and I can't change people's opinion, but what I love is that they're engaging with it in some way.

00:56:14:01 - 00:56:34:17

Hayley Ferguson

Totally. And I have an unhealthy obsession with scrolling Twitter, and especially if it's been my episode that I've produced or, you know, every evening or the next morning I'm scrolling to see all the tweets. And it's always great when you have the positive feedback. And it's always great to to get the general vibe of what people thought about different tweets or different moods or different things that happened.

00:56:34:20 - 00:57:02:11

Hayley Ferguson

But I think, like the most frustrating thing is because I don't engage on Twitter, you know, it's not my place to write back. But there's some times where, you know, I guess some people tweeting have great ideas and great thoughts. And then other people, I guess without having the context of being a producer or being there or knowing how television works, some of the criticisms, you feel really defensive because I'm like, Well, we had to do this because of X, Y, Z, or that was very accurate how we've portrayed that.

00:57:02:11 - 00:57:09:11

Hayley Ferguson

So yeah, there's a lot of moments like that, but I think, yeah, overall it is amazing to say the engagement with the Survivor format.

00:57:09:16 - 00:57:28:13

David Forster

Finally, look, I don't hate the haters. I love the haters. And the thing is, with the if I had a dollar for every time someone said, if that person goes home, I'm never watching again, you know, it's like and then the next night you'll see that same account tweet again and you just sort of think people just love to shout and they love to be involved and engaged, you know?

00:57:28:13 - 00:57:44:07

David Forster

And a negative comment is if they didn't care at all, they wouldn't comment at all, you know? So I'm really happy for the engagement, both positive and negative. I don't mind. I think just being able to take that criticism on board in a really healthy way because we have a meeting, you know, in a couple of months time, we'll have a meeting where we'll go, what worked?

00:57:44:07 - 00:58:01:23

David Forster

What didn't work? What are we doing next year? How are we going to make the show better? And that'll factor in, you know, the things that worked and didn't work. And I think the audience for that because I think you have to listen and then then you have to be a professional. You know, it's like we are professional TV producers, we do this for a living and we do it very well.

00:58:01:23 - 00:58:15:06

David Forster

And I, you know, when I get on a plane, I don't tell the pilot how I want to get to Sydney. You know, I just let him do it and I tell him I want to get to Sydney. And so that's where it leads. You know, I think you've got to say this is what I want as an audience member.

00:58:15:08 - 00:58:40:05

David Forster

Now you go and give it to me because you are a professional. So I hear what they want and then I have to think of a way to give it to them because I need to deliver what the audience wants, what the audience is going to be excited by it. But I have to use all my expertize and all my team's expertize to get there and they might not know how the sausage is made and they might not have the they might think they know or has some great ideas, but at the end of the day, they're entrusting us or we're being entrusted to make that sausage for them.

00:58:40:05 - 00:58:44:05

David Forster

And then I get it and go, You did a really good job, or I don't like this sausage.

00:58:45:11 - 00:58:56:14

Hayley Ferguson

I always want to know from people that have been successful in the industry, what advice would you give someone starting out in television and who wants to one day be in your position?

00:58:56:22 - 00:59:22:02

David Forster

It's really simple. Watch television. That's the only thing. The amount of people that have come across my desk in my life who have never watched the show they're working on or doesn't love television, it is like you will learn more from critically watching television. Like if you want to learn about a show, watch the same episode that, you know, whack a TV show, whether it's Survivor or whether it's MasterChef.

00:59:22:02 - 00:59:36:11

David Forster

Watch it three times. And if you watch it three times, you'll start to notice things you didn't notice the first time you watch it, the first time you watch it, you get carried away with the story and the plot and what's happening and who's going to. The next time you watch it, you start noticing the shots, you start noticing the absence.

00:59:36:11 - 00:59:54:10

David Forster

You start noticing what gets used, what doesn't get used. And then the third time you watch it, you really critically dove into it. And as a producer, that's what you do. You watch shows again and again and again – add that interview, then  you take it out again and then you put that interview before that scene to see how that works.

00:59:54:10 - 01:00:15:04

David Forster

And so that kind of understanding of just watching television but not watching it as a viewer, watching it critically is the biggest thing. Because if you come into any show with that knowledge, you'll instantly pick it up and you do that thing that we've been talking about through this podcast and value add to your role very quickly and then you'll just like you'll make a producer very happy.

01:00:15:19 - 01:00:37:17

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, I love that advice. I mean, I was blown away when I first got into reality TV. How many people said to me, Oh, I work in reality, but I don't watch it? And it was like I came in as someone who was loved reality TV and I watched it and I was really passionate and I was just like, I couldn't get my head around how many people was like, Yeah, I work in reality TV, so I don't I don't really watch it.

01:00:37:17 - 01:00:40:06

Hayley Ferguson

I don't really know. I'm got to watch the show. And I'd be like.

01:00:40:23 - 01:00:48:12

David Forster

I know. It's like saying, I want to learn how to drive, but I'm not going to get in the car. It's like, well.

01:00:48:12 - 01:01:01:23

Hayley Ferguson

Now before we get to the quickfire questions, I'm really interested to know, do you think your experience as a reality TV contestant shaped the way you executive produce or the way you approach television?

01:01:01:24 - 01:01:23:10

David Forster

Yes, it did. And it 100% it did. And I'll tell you why, because being on the other side, I understand what they're going through on a physical level. Like I understand the lack of information, I understand the interaction with other cast members because you were all in it together. I understand. And the feeling like you don't know what's going on or your life is handed over to these producers.

01:01:23:10 - 01:01:45:03

David Forster

I understand what they want because I've given it to them in the past. So in a weird way, it's been a very, very good experience for me because I can connect with contestants in a way that I wouldn't have been able to connect with if I'd never been a contestant. And that just is a blessing that I've had, even though when I was 20 and I never thought I'd do this, I can draw on that experience.

01:01:45:03 - 01:01:50:16

David Forster

So, yes, it's it's been an absolute boon for me, particularly in dealing with contestants.

01:01:51:06 - 01:02:02:14

Hayley Ferguson

Yeah, I love that. All right. Well, I know you've got to get to a meeting, so let's get to the quickfire questions. Your time starts now. What is your favorite reality TV show to watch?

01:02:03:12 - 01:02:03:23

David Forster

Full stop?

01:02:04:08 - 01:02:15:18

Hayley Ferguson

What was the last TV show you watched? Survivor see who is the most famous person you've met through working in TV? Gordon Ramsay what is your dream show to work on that you haven't already worked on?

01:02:16:02 - 01:02:20:08

David Forster

I would love to work on and it sounds weird. Australian Idol is.

01:02:21:03 - 01:02:22:23

Hayley Ferguson

This location you've been to for what.

01:02:23:07 - 01:02:23:18

David Forster

Japan.

01:02:24:00 - 01:02:26:24

Hayley Ferguson

What canceled TV show needs to make a comeback.

01:02:26:24 - 01:02:29:11

David Forster

Why bother? Is our baby.

01:02:29:20 - 01:02:37:20

Hayley Ferguson

Have you ever been on TV? We know the answer with that one. If you could be on any reality TV show The Resort excluded, what would you be on?

01:02:37:23 - 01:02:46:17

David Forster

I would love to play. I would love to play anything. I'd be very good. I think I'd be going very early, but I would love to play the show that I've made for so many.

01:02:46:17 - 01:02:50:04

Hayley Ferguson

I think he'd even crash and burn. Or you'd win on crash.

01:02:50:14 - 01:02:50:24

David Forster

I'd be go.

01:02:51:18 - 01:02:54:15

Hayley Ferguson

If you could have dinner with any celebrity, dead or alive, who would it be?

01:02:54:23 - 01:02:59:13

David Forster

Oh, God. Probably of the Smiths. I just think it's so interesting.

01:03:00:04 - 01:03:19:10

Hayley Ferguson

Wow. Okay, amazing. You've made it to the end of the quickfire questions. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, I've loved hearing your story and getting to talk to you in more detail. You know, I hear snippets on set and, you know, I ask you questions. It's it's not often that I get to have a sit down properly and get to hear all your insights.

01:03:19:11 - 01:03:27:21

David Forster

Thank you for having me. Thank you for the podcast. Thank you for plugging away and telling our stories forward to you writing the book of my Life in ten years time.

01:03:28:20 - 01:03:33:16

Hayley Ferguson

I maybe need some writing help from you. All right. Thanks, DF

01:03:33:22 - 01:05:16:06

David Forster

Thanks!