The Traitors Australia S3 | Banished Player Exit Interview | Ep 5 | Beyond The Traitors

In this episode of Beyond Reality: Beyond The Traitors, TV producer Hayley Ferguson sits down with reality TV icon Ian "Dicko" Dickson following his banishment in The Traitors.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:16

This is beyond reality. Hi, Dicko.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hi, Haley. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

I am so good, thank you. Uh, thank you so much for joining me. Obviously, you are a reality TV icon in this country. So I am so excited to unpack your game on the traders with you.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Well, I'm I'm delighted to do it, although I must admit, it's still it still absolutely spins me out when someone describes me that way because I was 40 years old when I first went on television. Certainly wasn't part of the career plan.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

So yeah, I mean, you have had such a huge career in the entertainment industry. What made someone like you decide to dive into a game like The Traitors?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Well, look, for the last 10 years, I've been trying to edge away from television and go back into music, which I really love. And I'm a music industry consultant. I love that so much. Um, and I've just told myself I'll do a television show if they pay me a lot of money, or if they let me be myself and I don't have to pretend. And so obviously these days they're not paying a lot of money, so I tend not to do it. But traitors is a show which is a game show which in which you can just be yourself. So that was immediately exciting to me. So there was, you know, there was no bullshit, you could just go in and actually play this game however I wanted to, and say whatever I wanted to, and be whoever I wanted to. That is that to me is a valuable use of my time. That's why I agreed to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, and I mean you came into this game with a very interesting strategy, a somewhat controversial strategy. Uh I want to know how did you come up with that game plan?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Well, I decided well before I went on the show, having seen and enjoyed so many other Traitors series, I I was aware one thing I noticed is that the first three episodes of every Traitor's series is like the first 15 minutes of saving Private Ryan. It's like, yeah, there are stray bullets, there's bodies dropping everywhere, and a lot of confusion and and kinetic energy. And and I thought I thought, if you can get through the first three or four episodes, patterns may start to emerge. However, within the first three or four episodes, you're gonna lose eight people out of 20. How do you protect yourself from being one of those eight people who've demised? And I just decided that crass as it was, if we could at least play the percentage game and mitigate against being banished, then you're taking away 50% of your chance of being killed, right? And so I didn't feel confident of being able to find or identify a traitor in the first four days, and I think that was backed up by the fact that nobody did. So I just thought, how do we do this? Well, I worked with a lot of young people over time, you know, um, and you know, was able to bully and manipulate them in the music industry. So I thought I'll try that with reality TV as well. No, and also look, I I had Rob Feynham I've known since he was a kid, um, Cossima, I knew from Australian Idol. So I thought, well, at least I've got two people here that know that I know and really like, and maybe that forms a basis of a block that we can create. How would I put this? Like a Roman circle of shelds to protect ourselves until we until we can start to see the wood for the trees. Look, and I know a lot you say controversial. I know there's players out there who are purists who think the way forward is to play three-dimensional chess, and they would probably accuse me of playing naughts and crosses, and they'd probably be rights, but that was that was the the only game I had, really.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, I mean, I'm all for it. I my background, I'm a survivor producer, so like I like strategic innovation. I like to see people playing the game. So I was actually really excited to see you do something different in the game and come out and be honest about it. You weren't even trying to hide what you were doing. So yeah, I mean, I really loved that.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Well, thank you for saying that. It's it because it's funny, it was the it was the survivors who two in particular who I think were most um enraged by this strategy. And that was AJ and Henry being, you know, felt that it was beneath them, really. They wanted to get their slide rules protagonists and their whiteboards out and come up with their you know far-flung theories about who was a traitor and who wasn't. But to be honest, that they they explained their theories to me, and their theories were absolute bullshit. So it's like, you know, that they had they had as much idea of who the traitors were as I did, you know? And also, you know, and they uh yeah, I saw them double dealing all the time. Yeah, at least, at least my at least my strategy was based on something I hold dear, which is loyalty and honesty.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Obviously, the phrase bad faithful that was thrown around. Do you feel like in the end you were banished because you were a bad faithful? Or do you think people really started to think you were a traitor?

SPEAKER_01 5:45

I've I've got to take my hat off to whoever came up with that. I suspect it was either Henry or AJ, and it certainly stuck, but it was a brilliant piece of branding, I thought, on their part. And um, I've got no absolutely no qualms about about going out on on that high. It's a delicious term, bad faithful. And if you can't be a traitor, be a bad faithful. But um, but I think it was really smart, whoever came up with that, because it it kind of the one thing that you're looking for when you're sitting in that game, certainly around a round table, is you've got to look at some justification for your vote, and that's one of the hardest things to do. And I think calling someone a bad faithful actually gave people a reason, almost like a moral entitlement to vote for someone. And I think that's that was really whoever came up with that term was super smart.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yeah, definitely. And obviously, secrecy was one of the the core elements to LSD, but it all came out at the round table one night. And can you tell me what was going through your head when Alex kind of brought everything out into the open and the people that didn't know about LSD were caught up to speed?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Do you know what? It was Alex was kind of the Alex was the moment when I thought, I'm done for here. The the first time I had an inkling that I was done for was when Alvin turned on me. And when Alvin said, I don't like to be manipulated, and I thought, oh, okay, something's going on here. Because Alvin had absolutely no problem being part of our gang for a long time. So obviously, I realized that there was a bit of a change in the play at that point, and I thought, oh, okay, so so clearly there's been a counter movement either amongst traitors or uh or another faithful group, but um, but yeah, look, fair play to them. I played the game as best as I could um with the only weapons and and materials I had available to me. And and and I thought it was kind of interesting. I thought it gave I felt that it gave the show an interesting dynamic. I thought it gave the game an interesting dynamic and gave you know both viewers and contestants a handle to work with or rail against. So I think it was a valuable tool for the whole whole process. But but when it crumbled, it crumbled fast.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah, and looking back, it was there a game-ending move for you? Was there a critical error you made or anything you could have done differently?

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, I would say um I probably I probably should have kept a fewer people. I I didn't need to recruit as many people as I did. I probably could have got away with four people and still been as effective. And I think that would have held together a lot longer than than my rookie mistake of trying to recruit more more people as I went along. I think that was the big mistake. If I if I had my time again, I'd take I'd take fewer people earlier and I would just stick with them and just take that as a realizing that there wasn't enough numbers to make you completely safe, but it probably would get you through. But I thought I was I was trying to overcompensate early on, and I think got too many people. And then when I think I think my big mistake was inviting Chrissy in.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Okay. Why Chrissy?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Oh, mainly because I think she's super smart, and she just she just basically she was just basically playing with her food at that point. I think she knew she was going to try and offer me. I think she was just enjoying the fun. God love her. I mean, she's such a brilliant cast member on this show. She really was.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

What was the biggest surprise to you watching it all back?

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Big surprise to me was that Queen actually picked it. Queen actually picked Kirby right off the top. And there was some that that was the only real clue I think we should have listened to when she said, Darling, I'm a drag queen. Drag queen, understand fabric and what it feels like, you know. And she said, I heard her being touched on her shoulder. I think we we, if she'd have been a bit more um up front about that and a bit more forceful, I think that's something that we maybe could have listened to. We might have got a traitor on the first round table if we'd have listened to Queen.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah, I mean, I thought Kirby was done for when Queen said that. I thought she was gone. But it's amazing that she's managed to survive the way she has.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Survivor, though. They're bloody good, aren't they? Yeah, it's funny because I was really keen to kill as many survivors as possible through our alliance, but also um, yeah, and there would have been a time when I think we'd have gone for Kirby and started eating our own. But uh my my sense of loyalty was that she's she's part of our gang, she's voting the right way, so we've got to protect her.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

I have one last question before we get to some quickfire questions. You have obviously been a judge on reality TV, you've hosted reality TV, you've been a contestant, you've you know, you've won celebrity apprentice. What experience in reality TV best equipped you to play the traitors?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

None of it, actually. Not none of the the what best equipped me to play traitors was the fact that I've spent the last 10 years walking away from television. If I'd have gone from being someone in the public eye who is on TV into traitors, I don't think I'd have been able to play the game in a way that I wanted to. And I think having had this space away from television, um, that probably equipped me. But it certainly gave me the appetite to do the game. I really wanted to go and play it because it looked like fun. And I just thought I can do this on my own terms, don't need to pretend, can play my game. I don't think I would have done that if I would have been in the thick of making a lot of TV shows, and I was that person. But so I think it's um it's it's yeah, it's the distance I've put between myself and being that person on TV that best equipped me to play it. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, I think you know, you weren't having to to play a character or perform as such. You could just play the game for what it was.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, and that's the that's the only reason why I did it. It certainly wasn't the money, it was um it was um it was just this interesting game, um with a little bit of an evil undertone to it, where you where you you just had to be yourself and try and survive. I think that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yeah, yeah, I love it. I mean, who doesn't love a murder mystery party?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

All right, let's get to the quick fire questions. Who was your favorite person in the game?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Uh Kosama.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Who did you think was the most dangerous in the game?

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Rob Farnum.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Who surprised you most in the game? Like who did you misjudge?

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Alex.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Who do you think was most relieved when you were banished?

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Rob Farnum.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Why? He was murdered straight after you.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Because I think it I think Rob had felt this real tog with me because we're friends, we've known each other a long time. I think that he felt this need to be loyal, but I think he wanted to play his own game and do his own thing. So I think with me out of the way, he was like, Thank God for that. I can just play this game how I want to now. I think I stuffed things up a bit for Rob and what the way he wanted to do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

If you were a trader, who would have been at the top of your hit list to murder?

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Rob Farnum. Because I think he's a really smart kid, really good, he's a really good competitor. So I think I'd have killed Rob first.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

You probably don't get starstruck, I assume. But were you starstruck by anyone arriving at the manor?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

I did I did get a little flutter when I saw Gretel. Because Gretel is TV royalty, I think, absolutely one of the champions of Australian television and and was just brilliant for the show. But I'd be lying if I said I was starstruck by any of the contestants.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, love Gretel. Um, you've judged, hosted, and competed on a lot of reality shows. Is there any other reality TV show that you would like to be on?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

I'm surprised I've never been asked to do Big Brother. Um, I'm not sure I would do that though, because they unlike um unlike I'm a Celebrity, get me out of air, they have the cameras on in the toilets and the showers. And I think when at my age, no one really wants to think that you're gonna be a 63-year-old man does not need to be filmed in the shower or having these morning ablutions, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

And finally, what Australian celebrity would you most like to see play The Traitors?

SPEAKER_01 14:54

I'd I'd I'd love to see Chrissy Swan, actually. She's an old friend of mine, and Chrissy's very much a person of the people, but she's got an evil, naughty side to her that I think she'd be a perfect contestant. I think she's great at forming alliances and relationships, but I know that you you haven't got to get too far under the surface to see a naughty side to Chrissy Swan.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah, she would be great. I could picture her up in the conclave.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Absolutely. Throwing that and she's got one of the most wicked laughs. She throws her hood back and starts cackling. She'd be like a real witch.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Love it. Thank you so much, Diko, for your time. Like I said, it's you know amazing to chat to you. I grew up watching Australian Idol when you were on. So this is a real thrill for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

You're welcome, Hayley. You have a great day.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Thank you.

unknown 15:48

This is beyond reality.