The Traitors Australia Exit Interview | Eliminated Player | Ep 9 | Beyond The Traitors

In this episode of Beyond Reality: Beyond The Traitors, TV producer Hayley Ferguson sits down with Luke Packham (Love Island Australia & The Block) following his dramatic murder where he faced off with his twin brother Josh in a "death match" on The Traitors Australia.

From sweating through his jacket on Day 1 to successfully hunting down back-to-back Traitors (Alvin and Alex), Luke was an undeniable force in the manor. But did getting "drunk on success" lead to his ultimate downfall? Luke opens up about the strategy behind his round-table reads, the brutal misstep of targeting his closest ally Claudia, the personal apology that followed, and what it really felt like to face his twin brother Josh in a high-stakes Death Match where only one Packham could survive.

Plus, having survived Love Island, The Block, and The Traitors, Luke breaks down the psychological reality of being a recurring reality TV contestant and takes on our Quick-Fire round.

In this episode, we discuss:

 Day 1 Panic & The Red-Face Curse: How Luke turned early-game suspicion into total immunity and trust. 

 The Mechanics of the Traitor Hunt: Luke's micro-body-language reads on Alvin and Alex at the Round Table. 

 "Best to Ever Play the Game": Luke addresses his bold in-game confessionals and eating his words. 

 The Fateful Claudia Callout: The miscalculation that tanked his game, calling her conniving, and how he made it up to her post-show. 

 The Dyslexia Defense: How Kirby outmaneuvered him and played into his empathy. 

 Brother vs. Brother Death Match: The emotional toll of going head-to-head with twin brother Josh. 

 Love Island vs. The Block vs. The Traitors: What three distinct formats taught him about boredom, resilience, and humility. 

 Quick-Fire Questions: Who he would have murdered first, being starstruck by Shane Gould, and his pitch for The Amazing Race. 

ABOUT THE HOST:

Beyond Reality is hosted by Senior TV Producer Hayley Ferguson. Hayley has spent over 12 years working across Australia's biggest unscripted hits, including Australian Survivor, MasterChef, Gogglebox, Dancing With the Stars, and Big Brother.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:16

This is being not reality. Hi, Luke.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Hi, Hayley. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I'm good. Thank you so much for joining me. You have been such a huge part of this season. So I'm really looking forward to unpacking your game with you.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Awesome. No, I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

I want to start by actually going all the way back to the beginning because at that very first round table, you went bright red and all eyes were on you, and there was a lot of suspicion on you. So what was going through your head in that moment?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

In that moment, I was just I was getting real anxious, and I definitely overdressed in there. I or you know it was cold outside and I should have taken off my jacket. And I was getting quite hot, and I can get flustered really quickly if I drink alcohol or I'm talking or feeling nervous, my face just goes red. It's just how I am. And I just felt being a twin that they were gonna pick me. So I was just getting anxious and nervous, and I was like, what if the person next to me is gonna feel that hear the tap and you know, and it never happened, it never came. And then I just could feel the heat on my face, and I'm like, I'm in I'm in trouble here. I'm not a trader, and everyone's gonna look at me, and that's that's what happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

It was so funny to watch because you really did look suspicious. Yeah. Somehow you went from having that suspicion around you to being one of the most trusted faithfuls in the game. How did you pull that off?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Uh, I think it was just over time. Um, I was just honest with people, I just owned up to it. I said, you know, this is who I am. I get hired, like it's not gonna be the first time you see my face being red, you're gonna realize that's not me being guilty. It's just how I am. Um, you know, and it quickly people just pulled away from me, you know. At that stage, I had no idea, but people were really sus on Kirby. Um, so eyes just started to look away from me. I I quickly pulled myself into the Dico group. You know, I just have a wing of protection and I thought I needed that for my safety. Um, so you know, just after a night or two, I started sleeping a little bit better. Um, you know, I wasn't a wasn't a major threat to to anyone at that stage. Um, and I just slowly pulled myself into groups and and getting more power in the game.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, you just really settled into the game quite quickly and you you hit your stride. You hit your stride, and that's sort of when you managed to become this trader hunter. You targeted Alvin and Alex in back-to-back banishment ceremonies. What were you seeing that other people weren't?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

For me, yeah. I I definitely after after we took Henry out, then I started breathing up, you know, fresh air, and I could feel like really be myself and start traitor hunting um without any suspicion. And um with Alvin, it was just at the time I was starting to push away from from the group and be like, you know, we've got to start finding and throwing out names, and you know, actually trying to play, if not well, eventually, you know, the trader's gonna win the game. So at that stage, I'd gotten in quite a lot of conversations with Alvin and he just never really said any names. It was always just a lot of yeses and understanding, and then at the round table, he'll just go with what he was told to vote with and have a really poor reason for it, like he didn't care. And I was like, this is just someone that's wanting to survive the round table, he doesn't need to worry about murder. Um, and then it just became more and more sus on me. And and with Alex, the night Dicko gets voted out, I could just see that she wasn't really that upset. It just was a fake upsetness and was really trying to overplay how shocked she was that Dico wasn't a traitor. And I was like, uh I'd never really had any discussions or heard her discussing with anyone, you know, that she thought Dico was a traitor, or you know, she had these ideas. Um, you know, I knew Chrissy had had thoughts on on Dico, so I understood her reasoning, but not Alex. And then the following night when she votes Alvin and she kind of was forced to vote for Alvin to conceal herself, she generally was upset putting down his name. And I just picked up on it and I was like, yeah, you're you you've got to be a trader. I can can just sense it in how you're acting around the round table. And um, you know, I feel like you can't advise everyone around the round table, but a lot of the game is played at the round table, like you can really see people's personality, um, how they're acting and so forth at that round table.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, I think it was really interesting because it was really perceptive reading people's body language, and it was actually quite impressive, and I loved hearing your your thought process in the episodes as they played out. You actually described yourself as you know one of the best to ever play the game. Do you stand by that statement?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

I don't, I don't now. Um at the time, when you're when you're in the game, you start you know believing like your yourself, you're like, Yeah, I'm on a roll here. Um, you know, you you but it in in the game, I feel you have to be that convinced in yourself. You have to have that feeling of awe and invincibility that you're uh that you're right in your conviction. Um, you know, I'm not one of those people that are gonna be swayed and go in being like, oh, there's you know it's I'm 50-50. I'm like it's this person and that's it. And for myself, I had to feel I was I was the best to make myself believe that I'm gonna get them. Um looking back now, yeah, I had to eat my words hard. Um, but that's that's part of my personality. I'll you know, I'll eat my words and and have to, you know, take take a little bit of stick or whatnot, but at the end of the day, um it's just it's a part of it. And um, if I didn't have that attitude, I probably would not got you know got the votes for the first two. I have to be convincing.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, well, it definitely made for great television. The wheels did come off, obviously, when you went in and targeted your close ally, Claudia.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Do you think you got drunk on success?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

A little, but at the same time, I felt I put myself in a position where I had to keep going. Um, if not, I was gonna be murdered. I knew by that stage I was too much of a threat, and it was me or them. And I I played that dangerous game. I enjoyed playing that dangerous game, and I felt I had to go all in that night. I had to figure out quickly who the third was. If not, I was gonna be murdered. Funny enough, even if I got it right, I was still gonna be murdered through the through a death match. Um, but I I just had to convince myself, and for me, I had some really plausible reasoning for Claudia. Um, my main one was you know, I just couldn't get her to um see why Alex was a traitor. And I could I've got my brother turned, I've got other people who were close with Alex turned, but with her, she was just rock solid on Alex. And for me, I was like, why? Why can't you just see a little bit of why it was Alex? And then, you know, she voted Reese as well as Alex voted Reese. I'm like, this is their last throw off to try and protect Claudia uh as you know, the last OG trader. So I had to go all in on her. Obviously, I regret it now, and I wish I saw things differently, and I wish I just went Reese and I would have gotten Reese by default, uh, but it just wasn't how it played out.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

It seemed like it really affected you. How did it feel when Claudia revealed that she was a faithful?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Awful. Uh you know, I like I said, I had to get myself so convinced that I was correct. And when I wasn't, my heart just sank. I was like, oh my god, like now I'm now I'm gone. And if I'm not gone, you know, now I'm definitely gonna be murdered tonight. And if I'm not murdered tonight, I'm facing a m massive uphill challenge, um, you know, to fight my way into survival now. And I knew people were probably gonna start looking at me, and I was gonna have to start probably defending myself as being a potential trader. Um, so I knew from that point on my game was gonna be completely different if I even survived the night. Um, you know, I would have probably been very quiet, subdued, um, just trying to survive, literally.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

I mean, that's obviously from a game perspective, on a personal level. I mean, you called her conniving.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Horrible, horrible. I like I look back and I'm like, geez, like it really, really takes your grasp. I'm like, wow, you know, if I could take it all back, I would. And but at the same time, um, at the round table, I had to I have to be convincing, and you know, it's horrible what you say, but at the end of the day, it is a game in there, and I'm going to I'm playing my game, and everyone else is playing their game. And I I did call her conniving, and I I did think she was conniving. I literally thought I was like, she's played a conniving game, and you know, she's befriended me, and that's why I've survived because you know this this trader's kept me close, and Alex was closer with Josh, so I felt that's how it was going in there. And um, you know, I was I have to eat my words, and I I apologize to Claudia profusely, and we're we're good now. We're we're okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

I did ask Claudia about that conversation after the game. Is it true that you offered her a year's worth of lawn services?

SPEAKER_01 9:33

No, that's definitely not true. I think that's Claudia running off. Um that definitely didn't never happen. I I install synthetic grass, like I do sporting fields and so forth, so I don't know how I would maintain her lawn.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Did you offer anything to make up for it?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

I did, I did. Um that when um that night, um, the following day, um, when we're out, I um I bought her a meal and um I think I even paper her hotel for before um she caught her flight home. So I did.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

So all good now.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

All good now, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

All good from the beginning, Josh had Kirby in his sights. You defended Kirby. What convinced you that Kirby wasn't a traitor?

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Um to be honest, I had a few conversations with Kirby and um just how she responds to questioning and so forth. Um, just how she acts, and I I just believed her, and from that point on, I was like, no, she wasn't really on my radar at that point in the game. Um, you know, I had good conversations with her, and she did make me feel sorry for her that she was a a um survivor player and that the survivor players are getting kicked on, and oh the poor survivor players at that point, you know, it was early on that she built my trust, and I never fully went back to it. And to be fair, no one ever really came up to me with solid evidence. You know, we're watching the show and everyone's got these this evidence on her. I was never told any of that, no one ever had conversations with me on it. Um, so no one ever drew my attention to her. Um, you know, besides one conversation with my brother or two, that was it, no one else.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Yeah, I mean you're not the only one being convinced by Kirby, so I don't think anyone can hold that against you.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

That was it. What what is it called, Haley? When um like when you read read things backwards and so forth. What's the what's the terminology for it? Um dyslexic. So that's what that's what she said to me that you know she's she's dyslexic, and um sometimes she you know, when someone asks her a question, she just fumbles a little bit and so forth. So it made me feel sorry for her.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Wow, okay, that's that's next level.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah, that's that's yeah, she goes to that level. But um, yeah, um, that's why I was never sus on her. And um, you know, when she picked um Reese uh at that point, I potentially could have gotten Reese by default, but they never changed their their thought process or how they acted that day. He did well.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I want to talk about the deat match because it was a very dramatic way to go out of the game. How did you feel when you realized you were going to be going against Josh, your twin brother, in a deat match, and only one of you were gonna survive?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, it was it was tough. Um, but at the same time, it was a little bit comforting that it was my brother. Um because I was like, at least one of us will survive and um you know kick on. If it was a if I was up against someone else, it would have been even more heartbreaking, heartbreaking for me losing. Um, but losing to my brother, I'm okay with that. Um, you know, it it was tough at the same stage. I I could I thought I was gonna be murdered going into a deathmatch, like, oh wow, I could actually have a second chance here in the game and try and fight my way back into the group, but it it just wasn't meant to be. And um, you know, I was like, Josh, take the reins and go for it, but just try and be a little bit more quiet in there. Don't don't be as as aggressive as I was.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Yeah, I guess if you thought you were gonna be murdered, it gave you a 50-50 shot. So that's a positive. How conflicted were you? Was there a part of you that didn't want to win?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, I at some stage was like, you know, maybe it's better Josh just stays in and might be better for the gameplay that I go and and he survives. So, you know, at that stage, I was I was definitely thinking like that. I was I was happy to stay in, or you know, I was also happy for my brother to continue. Um, you know, I felt I'd played the dangerous game more so than my brother. So if anyone needs to go, it was me. I'd I got it wrong, so I had to eat my words and be banished.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

The ghost of Claudia.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

You've obviously been on Love Island, you've been on the block and the traders now. I want to know what did each experience teach you about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Okay, um, yeah, good question. Um, Love Island definitely taught me how to deal with boredom, to be honest. A lot of the time I was quite bored. Um, you know, it's very monotonous each day, just having conversations and the same people, it's a small environment in there, and after 20 days, you're getting really bored in that confinement. So definitely taught me how to deal with boredom without technology. The block definitely taught me um how to overcome major hurdles. You know, every day there was a major issue or or something, can you were completely left on your own to handle it? Like uh so it taught me resilience, the block. Definitely, it's a three-month slog, and at times you you're really under the hammer. So definitely resilience. And the traders, um, what did the traders teach me? Um humbling, humbling, I reckon. Um, you're not always right. You can try you can try and um you know pick faults in other people, you know, in the game that they're a trader and so forth. And if you're wrong, you have to be humble and eat it. And uh, you know, that's that's why I felt, you know, I had to go in there, I was stating, you know, I'm gonna be the best and I'm gonna get them. And when that's not the case, you have to be humble and and eat it and eat your own words. So that's that's what the traders taught me.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yeah, I love what you put into the game. I watched you on the block, so I know that you're not afraid of a bit of conflict. I think that was one of the best like fights on the block with Mitch and Mark.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

At one stage, I even went for a director behind the camera. It was it was in one of the episodes where he was an audience to confront him.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Well, I love that you could translate that into maybe a more um a positive way of conflict at the at the round table, a more appropriate place.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

That's right, exactly. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Now that you've experienced three very different reality shows, what do you wish people would understand what it's actually like to be a reality TV contestant?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

The pressure, the the environment is stressful. Um no reality TV show is easy, it brings out stress, you're on camera, you're always worried about how you're gonna be perceived. Um, no matter even if it's in the back of your mind, uh, you're worried that people are gonna, you know, look at you differently from how you're actually trying to be. So it's very challenging to put yourself out there. And at the end of the day, as a reality TV star, you're allowing people to criticize you. So you've got to be able to deal with it. At times I find it really hard to deal with it. At other times, I'm a lot better with it. It depends each day how you how you want to deal with it and how you wake up that morning. But it's it's certainly not easy. Um, and at the end of the day, yeah, you oh you have to be open to allow people to criticize you. That's what reality TV is. Um, you know, and the more I do it, the better I get at it. I feel handle that.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

I would love to get some quick fire questions. Who was your favorite person in the game that wasn't your brother?

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Oh Dick, I hilarious, just made me laugh every day. It's you know, just my conversations. He had me in tears, just how funny he was. Like uh obviously you can't see every conversation, but he just had me in stitches every day. So he'd always make me feel better.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

If you were a traitor, who would you have murdered first?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I think I would have taken Chrissy out.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

She's dangerous, dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Yeah, I would have taken Chrissy.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Who surprised you the most in the manner and why?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Oh, at the stage of the game, I think Reese, to be honest. I think Reese. Uh yeah, I would say Reese.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Why?

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Just was always there, but you know, that's why I was sus on Reese, but just always seemed to get by pretty easily. Um, you know, for someone who's intelligent so forth, and you see it on camera when Reese is going, I have no idea who it is. Everyone, you know, it's just accepted as that, even though you know Reese is intelligent and um just go behind the radar. Uh yeah, Reese.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Who are you most starstruck by on day one?

SPEAKER_01 18:00

To be honest, probably probably Shane Shane. Um, you know, even though very easy to to get to get along with, uh, you know, I I love athletes and so forth, so definitely Shane in that regard.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah. He's the only one that's done something truly worth worthy of achievement, you know, in you know, in in Australia, like with you know what she's done. So yeah, for me, definitely shame.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

If you could be on any other reality TV show, what would you be on?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Oh, I reckon if if I was do something with my brother, it would be um uh The Amazing Race. I'd love, I'd love to do something like The Amazing Race, you know, if with with Josh, if I'm on my own, probably Survivor.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

I've been a producer on Survivor forever, so like it's yeah. Which Australian celebrity would you like to see play the traitors and why?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Uh Cam. Cam again. Just so we can have a so he can have a crack of it this time. Uh, you know, I still feel awful that he didn't didn't get in there, so I definitely can.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Poor Cam. It was so nice to see you fight for him.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Yeah, it's just a bit of humanity there. Just give the guy a chance.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Justice for Cam.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

That's right. I'll be saying Cam for sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Luke, thank you so much for the chat today. I've really enjoyed chatting to you and hearing about your game. You know, I'm sure you're looking forward to seeing how Josh goes and see if he can take it out for both of you.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Thank you, Hailey, so much, is being not reality.